DragonFlight

Here, here, Stephen, but will it happen. We are all sick and tired of the "distractions", as Obama has reiterated time and again. I, unfortunately, have come to the realization that it is not going to change until we have strong role models that will raise this country's consciousness to a higher level. Let's hope we see this happen at our next election.

The worst part of this is that the loudest outrage is from the people who trashed John Kerry and the US Navy, accusing the Navy of giving out medals to anyone who wanted them.

Remember them? The "purple bandaid folks"? THAT was outrageous. Clark's comments are not.

Clark never "dissed" McCain's military service. He simply said that it does not qualify him to be president. IMO, that's a valid observation, since the McCain campaign is using his service as foreign policy expertise, which he does not have.

The point is that his foreign policy is very much like George W. Bush's foreign policy and we all know where THAT got us.

Sharon, I'm starting to hope that Obama doesn't let himself caught up in these distractions as well. I don't believe his campaign should have apologized for Clark's statement. That was just political pandering.

Clark did not in any way, shape or form infer that McCain was not a hero, or didn't serve his country honorably. What he was saying is that being a hero doesn't automatically qualify someone to be either the president or the commander in chief. There is absolutely no apology needed for that. I sincerely hope Clark sticks to his guns and doesn't allow himself to be backed down by either side. I'm sick and tired of all the games.

The democrats have to start doing what the right wing does, but based on truth rather than deceit. They need to get the word out to all their spokespeople each week on what the focus should be, and hammer it home. Enough people intelligently repeating the message that military experience is great, but doesn't necessarily qualify someone to be president, is one that would be heard by even so-called patriots if it was explained often enough so that even they could get it.

Amen on "strong role models" and raising the consciousness of the nation, but I gotta tell you I won't hold my breath on either. The nation is so deeply mired in survival mode, that it's hard to predict whether that will lead people to wake up, or bury their heads even deeper in the sand.

Mary, how do we say "irony" and hypocrisy?"If we have learned nothing else in the past decade, it is that the right wing spin machine is as disengenous, unconscionable, self-serving, and ignorant as it can possibly be!!!

Why there is not more outrage on the right about that might be the real question. Being stuck in an outdated ideology isn't going to make our nation stronger or safer, and being right (figuratively and literally) isn't the answer to anything, when it turns out to be wrong.

You caught me napping again, Stephen. I missed all the fuss.

America likes it's heros. John McCain is always going to be regarded as a hero, and anything said that can be construed or misconstrued as an anti-hero is going to be jumped on. Simple fact. Clark is absolutely right, but there's never a chance that his remark is going to play well. I'm glad he said it, though. Somebody needed to.

what Wes Clark stated was fact unlike the vicious character assassinations that the gutless Rovians used against Kerry and Max Cleland - so far Clark has stood his ground - the GOPigs relentlessly smear while the Dems usually play nice... will they ever learn to control the agenda? the Dems NEED some high profile attack dogs instead of meek apologetic lap dogs.

I think Kerry deserved the criticism, not because he put himself in for the purple heart, not because of his imaginary war story of how he spent Christmas in Cambodia but because of his statements about his fellow G.I.'s that he made before Congress, calling them baby killers, rapists etc. Add to that his personal and subversive meetings with the Communist North Vietnamese when we(the US) were in negotiations with them (and while he was still a Naval Officer)at the Paris Peace talks. Not only that but in the communist War Museum in Ho Chi Minh City (formerly Saigon) there's a special section featuring anti-American war protesters during the Vietnam war, John Kerry is on display as an honored hero of the antiwar protest movement.
Enough on him. Now about military experience - which is but one of the things Obama lacks -it's no secret that Senator Obama would like to remove Senator McCains faithful and heroic military service as a campaign factor and tilt the playing field for Obama. It's especially a shame that an Obama serrogate like General Clark, a former military man himself would make such an obvious attempt to mitigate the impact that McCains heroic military service will have in the campaign. Now there are reasons I won't vote for either man. Both candidates are flip floppers and McCain is a member of the CFR. For that matter I'm not sure Obama was even born in the US or a US territory which would negate his candidacy. Document experts have demonstrated three ways that Barack Obama's so called Honolulu Birth Certificate, (bandied about on the internet) is a complete fraud.
So his candidacy may not even be legal.
But he's certainly a likeable guy, and I appreciate his latest flip-flop trying to woo us evangelicals - now if he'll just flip his opinion on abortion...

Way to go, Stephen! Is there no end to this kind of stupidity?

Dan Abrams was probably patting himself on the back for “asking the hard questions” as that has become the latest self-congratulatory silliness the media offers as explanation for its mindless drivel. Abrams seemed totally oblivious to how far off the point and how ridiculous he appeared when he continued to push for a yes or no answer to whether or not Clark stood by his statement.

Just look at the statement he was in such frenzy about: “I don’t think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be President.” Well, duh.

Is there any thinking person who would consider riding in a plane and getting shot down as evidence of a particular skill or expertise that could be called a qualification for the highest office in the land? I don’t think so.

Neither is being tortured as a POW for five years a qualification for president. It is a reason to be grateful to McCain for his service, to consider him a hero and a patriot. But if those things qualify him to be president, then doesn’t that mean that every military man who has ridden in a plane, been shot down, been tortured and spent time as a POW is likewise qualified to be president? Does that make sense to anyone?

McCain’s campaign is such a mess with his long list of flip-flops, his support for so many of Bush’s unpopular policies, and his lobbyist run operation that I suppose all he can do is whine about perceived insults while blaming and criticizing Obama. I used to admire McCain but I don't know who this man is anymore.

It's naive to think that General Clark was speaking only about the actual downing of McCain's aircraft, (a mere few seconds out of McCains 23 honorable years of military service). There can be no doubt that General Clark in trite language was casting apersions on the entirety of McCain's military service that included McCain's incarceration and torture in a communist North Vietnamese prison. The obvious Obama-Clark strategy is to eliminate the McCains 23 years of military service as a McCain campaign asset.
If you actually believe that General Clark was referring only to the destruction of McCains jet, you're extremely naive. I would say that over two decades of faithful service and all that it entails bodes quite well for a person desiring the position of Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, especially when that person (John McCain) was put to tests in which he excelled far above and beyond the call of duty, that neither John Kerry or Wesley Clark ever came close to, tests that he passed with dignity and honor. Obama hasn't got a clue of what that means, and having general Clark do his bidding (who shifts allegiances almost as quickly as Obama)is disgraceful. How many cycles will Obama's flag pin go through during this campaign?

I think of it this way: John McCain was captured and was a prisoner. And this qualifies him to be president, exactly, how?

This is all such bullshit. Shame on Barack Obama for his comments about Clark's statement, and a big "THANK YOU" to Wesley Clark for throwing a little bone of truth out there.

These people on TV are unconscionable nitwits whose main purpose in life is to hear their own voices. They are all blathering about how Clark dissed McCain. Uh.... no, he didn't. Even at the very worst, he didn't. He did not dishonor McCain's service, nor did he criticize the man. All he did was throw a piece of logic into the discourse.

Oh no! Logic? Oh no!

Publius2, I appreciate your comment, but don’t agree. The remark Clark made which set everything off, wasn’t even in his own words, but rather, a mirror of Shieffer’s own comment:

“Schieffer: I have to say, Barack Obama has not had any of those experiences either, nor has he ridden in a fighter plane and gotten shot down. I mean-

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be President.”

“But he hasn't held executive responsibility. That large squadron in Air…in the Navy that he commanded, it wasn't a wartime squadron. He hasn't been there and ordered the bombs to fall. He hasn't seen what it's like when diplomats come in and say, 'I don't know whether we're going to be able to get this point through or not. Do you want to take the risk? What about your reputation? How do we handle it publicly…He hasn't made those calls, Bob.”

Schieffer chose instead to go off on a tangent, and create a faux competition based on being shot down in a fighter plane. That is what I would call trite, and that is what got everything side-tracked. Clark merely responded to that statement as it pertained to the discussion that had to do with qualifications for being president.
Additionally, Clark was simply stating that McCain’s military experience, though commendable, does not necessarily give him the type of experience needed to be president. General Clark has earned the right to make such an observation. He was in the military quite a bit longer, reached the highest of ranks, and did make the kind of command decisions he was talking about.

It does get quite tiring to hear, ad infinitum, why anyone should be President because he was in the military, and another person should not, because they were not. McCain has been basking in the praise of that service for several decades now, and it does not make up for his action or inaction in the Senate. Quite frankly his political accomplishments of late are quite suspect, especially considering how he has chosen to change his mind on every key issue in the past several months simply, and obviously, to pander for so-called conservative votes. He is not a straight talker, and he is not a “maverick” any longer, and his qualifications as a real conservative are quite questionable. The flip flop express would be a lot more descriptive than the “straight talk express.”

I’m not quite certain what you mean by “two decades of faithful service” and “tests in which he excelled far above and beyond the call of duty, that neither John Kerry or Wesley Clark ever came close to?” Surviving as a POW though courageous and admirable, doesn’t instill him with any more “dignity and honor” than Kerry or Clark. If you are young, strong and committed to survival and blessed with luck, you might make it out of such circumstances, but those circumstances by themselves are largely out of one’s control, and aren’t necessarily building character or qualifications that make him better than others who have served, and not been POWS.

And quite frankly, I don’t perceive Clark as doing Obama’s bidding. I don’t perceive him as the type of individual that does anyone else’s bidding. And if anything is naïve, it is believing that wearing a “flag pin” makes one patriotic and sets them apart from others. Personally, I see a lot of pompous asses in the political arena that wear those pins in hopes of mirroring qualities they don’t have.

I’ve never been a supporter of people that wear “any value” on their sleeve (political, religious or otherwise) in order to convince others that they are special and others are not. A person worth their true measure, demonstrates who they are through actions and words, not by the use of symbols that are not rewarded to them, but self-chosen. No doubt many who where flag pins are true patriots, and I’d bet just as many or more are not! I’ve observed plenty of people in the present Administration and Congress wearing them who are responsible for dragging this nation through one of the worst military blunders in its history, all the while grabbing wealth for themselves at that expense of our nation. It reminds me of a time not too long ago when certain people labeled themselves as “compassionate conservatives.” I can only surmise they did so, because it was something that was not real obvious upon observation. I also recall it is not a label that lasted very long, or that one hears any longer.

This whole scenario was blown way out of proportion. Perhaps when the so-called “TV media” stops being more interested in entertainment based on triggering emotions, and starts honestly stimulating minds instead, we can get to the real issues that determine who is really qualified to be the president, and less concerned with everything anyone else has to say.

Stephen, I'll take your word that whole statement sprung from Schieffer's mind. What I saw was the clip of Wesley Clark making the statement, followed later by his affirmation that he stood by that statement. From reading the other posts on this thread it appears that others took the statement in the same context that I did.
I would have to say that Schieffer's statement was 'trite' and an obvious slam on McCain and Gen. Clark picked it up and ran with it. But be warned now that General Clark has made many statements when he supported Hillary, you can be sure will be part of the Republican Campaign ads.

McCain has no executive experience but he did stay at a Holiday Inn Express...

McCain doesn't go around claiming that he is responsible for passing legislation that he had nothing to do with...Can Obama say that?
http://www.newsmax.com/morris/obama_ad_/2008/07/07/110599.html

Obama may not have been American born which would disqualify him from the presidency.

http://advanceindiana.blogspot.com/2008/06/israeli-insider-obama-birth-certificate.html

In response to your question Stephen, Yes the world and it's citizens have gone nuts. They no longer use common sense or any brain activity at all when it comes to our government or media. It's hard to believe that this once great nation is breeding and continuing to teach the NO-Thinking/No Child left behind theory of that village idiot in the White House. And people seem to busy or too ignorant to say "Wait a minute this is bullshit" so the stupidity continues. Scary huh?
Thanks for the rant,
Kate

I want to apologize to those not getting their comments posted immediately; we evacuated for four days because of the fire threat in Butte County, and I wasn't able to access the site.

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Publius, two things RE: McCain not taking credit for legislation he had nothing to do with. First, McCain just recently applauded the passing of the Veteran's bill that he voted against, and secondly, Dick Morris has become a partisan right wing hack who twists and spins everything to the disadvantage of the left. In other words, he cannot be trusted to tell the truth on anything political. I just heard him, on Fox “Noise,” of course, criticizing Obama for constant flip flopping, when the truth is, it is McCain flip flopping on just about everything he has stood for when he was known as a “maverick.” You can view some of them at http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/9111.html They include “major” flip flops like abortion, torture, Bush tax cuts and campaign finance. Obama and McCain aren’t even close when it comes to changing stance on issues.

And I do not blame Obama for changing his mind on not accepting public financing for his campaign, considering how the 527s will come out and support McCain by spending countless millions, at no expense to McCain. They have already begun.

I also loved/abhorred the way McCain recently criticized Obama saying, “This is the same organization [the Iranian Revolutionary Guard] that I voted to condemn as a terrorist organization when an amendment was on the floor of the United States Senate. Senator Obama refused to vote.” The only problem here was that McCain also missed that vote. DOOOOOH!

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/07/11/mccain-misfires-on-obama-attack/

Publius, you may not like Obama for whatever reasons, but to try and say he is a worse candidate than McCain is simply ludicrous!!!

katerina, I hate to agree, but there are indeed an awful lot of politically (to be kind) stupid people in this "once great nation." For a nation to be truly great it has to continue to be great on an ongoing basis. The last seven and one half years have been an unmitigated disaster and embarrassment for the USA. Anyone with the gumption to vote Republican considering the present state of this country, is beyond having their mind examined, because there is obviously none there.

It's good to hear from you! (smile)